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§ What did they do to the small caption font?

Noticed something weird while doing some debugging in Windows 8 Consumer Preview:

Apparently the small caption font entry in the non-client metrics has been tweaked in Windows 8 CP to use the same font size as for main caption bars, which is a bit out of proportion for where it is intended to be used. Here you can see the problem it causes in WinDbg, where all of the dockable windows now have huge caption bars. Even better yet, the old dialog that used to allow the non-client metrics to be adjusted -- somewhat hidden in Windows 7 under the Window Color link in Personalization -- seems to have been removed, so this can't be fixed easily. I hope this is fixed for RTM, because otherwise it kinda sucks to be punished for trying to do the right thing by using system UI parameters.

Comments

Comments posted:


It was a difficult task to make WinDbg look even more weird & ugly than it already did, but those wizards at Microsoft have pulled it off!

Leo Davidson (link) - 26 05 12 - 19:37


I've yet to hear of a single thing they didn't completely mess up in Windows 8, so I won't hold my breath. Or perhaps they'll make a Metro version of WinDbg? ;)

Marcel - 26 05 12 - 19:56


> perhaps they'll make a Metro version of WinDbg

...No. Just, no.

Phaeron - 27 05 12 - 07:54


No? You must be the last person on earth who is not totally into Metro ;-)

What, it's the other way round? Oh, nevermind

Marcel - 28 05 12 - 08:20


Frankly, if I want to use a smartphone/tablet OS, I'll use my smartphone, ahem.

I have like zero desire to use a tabletOS on my desktop, none.
I don't have a touchscreen monitor so really, whats the point again?
My screen is 20", not 7" so again, whats the point.

Oh right, MS can save money by having one OS for both desktop/laptop
environment and the phone/table environment, and they can try to increase
their marketshare in that arena. Well thats lovely for them but does little
for me and my desktop (or my laptop)

So I won't be spending money on Win8, I dislike the idea of having to
switch "modes" to use like 90% of my programs (I guess we're calling
these "apps" now huh?, thanks Apple)

I don't use IE or much in the way of MS software other than the OS
itself, so other than like Calculator and what not I can't say exactly
what I'd use the metro interface for, or why I'd want to.

And I hope what Phaeron was eluding to with the missing dialogs
only affects the programming side of things, they didn't actually
remove the ability for users to customize font, caption bar, scrollbar,
button sizes,etc did they? Cuz if so, that wrecks my custom theme,
yet another reason not to "upgrade"

I still use XPSP3 on my desktop and Win7 on my laptop, I can't
see that changing until some games/productivity software come out
that specifically don't support DX9 anymore. I still can't get over
how difficult it is in Win7 to make it remember individual folder
view settings if you choose something other than what they
want you to choose, or to disable the dumb "libraries".

I'm sick of MS demanding that we use an OS the way they
think it should be used instead of how the individual wants it
used. From the earliest days of "My Documents" and "My this/that/whatever"
and defaulting to giant icons that take five minutes to scroll thru a large
folder I've loathed this approach.

I use details, date descending as my folder view, always have.
I create and name folders and sort stuff appropriately not dump it
all into one big "My ____" or library, I don't want stuff "sync'ed"
Do you know how much time it took to hack Win7 out of its
braindead defaults? A long time.

Now it looks like it won't even be possible in Win8, I'd like
to see them go back the other direction of user customizability,
and less benevolent dictatorship

Marcus - 29 05 12 - 07:39


Marcus, good luck with that. I use third party tools to make win 7 usable but that wont be possible in win 8. In fact there is no single reason for anyone with a desktop to do the switch, they hope to fool enough people to start using it and that's about it. I have flamed win 8 since the first time I tried using it almost a year ago. Microsoft can care less what you or me or any other user has to say. I have gone to live presentations and tried interacting with the developers. When I made statements like "this feature is not usable and not practical" the response was "what would you not like this, this is the best thing ever" with a deer in a headlights stare like no one was behind the curtains. I stopped going to Microsoft conventions. Reading posts here on vdub by developers reaffirms that even at the base level, they are functionality and practicality from the OS. The only people I have found that like the OS are people who love things that are shiny and do things they don't understand - it is intriguing to them and they love it. To power users, expect removed functionality, compatibility, portability, and performance.

evropej - 07 06 12 - 04:22


@evropej: Well, not everything is as bad as it seems. From what I can tell, the overall performance of the operating system, for example, has become better compared to Windows 7. BUT then there's already the downside of it: the features that were removed, like the Start button/menu, without an option to re-enable, and the forced use of the Metro environment, that render such improvements worthless when you dislike the user experience as a result. I also don't like the new "app" model that is too limited in any way. An application like VirtualDub that makes use of plugins is just not possible to build for the Windows Runtime. Plus, you can't install "apps" from any other source but the Windows Store. From a security standpoint, this might be a good thing for consumers because it's an effective way to protect them from malware and viruses, but power users will find that these limitations get in the way easily. Windows 8 is designed for tablets and touch; as a desktop OS it just feels weird, whatever they want to make you believe, because the whole Metro environment is useless and has no benefit over the traditional Explorer shell in case you don't use "apps" at all. But if you argue that way with the people on several tech blogs, you just get criticized of being reluctant to change. What a nonsense. These changes weren't made because there was a need for change, no. They were made because of Microsoft's desire to get their piece of cake in the tablet market, unfortunately at the cost of their established user base. Personally, I reinstalled Windows 7 on my developer machine after evaluating the Consumer Preview until the Release Preview came out. The only "apps" I used were Mail and Calender, but both of them are of no real value because Google (any many other providers) have a decent web interface for these tasks, and it works cross-platform.

sevenacids - 19 06 12 - 22:24


Since we are getting into a discussion of about how W8 is gonna suck, i though id vent a bit too. :)

I have a friend called, lets say Bob. He thinks the sole purpose of computers are to play video games, watch movies and interract on various social media. If he is not playing a game, watching a pirated movie off the internet (alone, with a bucket of fried chicken, on windows media player too) or bootlegging songs, he is 'updating his profile' [or what ever the kids are calling it these days]. Bob owns an iPhone and his favourite application on it is a talking tabby cat. (He also drives an nuclear vomit orange Ford figo with gold tint chrome)The sad part is, Bob is the kind of person MS designed W8 for. People who love flashy and pointless things. These are people who prefer WMP over VLC because it "looks better".

It unfortunately, automatically drives prople who actually do something with their computers away. And the fact that MS designed it for Bob over me is a little insulting.

My last job involved designing PCBs. I would have the schematic, the board, the data sheet and application notes, all open simultaneously on 2 monitors with W7's Aero and all its goodness keeping thing organized. I was thankful for W7's UI. Heck, I was even thankful for XP's nifty "group taskbar" feature. For W8, microsoft gets a brickbat not a bouquet.

Shaunak De (link) - 24 07 12 - 19:50

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